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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:50 am 
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I think there is some necessity of a new dagger available to all three classes.
I've played an agi-based cleric (after trying things out, this is a semi-forced option, like how you pretty much must pick the warrior's guild for +5 damage), a twohand warrior, and an agi warrior.

2H cleric does not work. At all. the multiplier is not sufficient to make up for the lack of speed, duel buildup, arbeno's might, and heavyhand spam. As 1.5x str multiplier is exactly equal to the benefits of a 1x + 0.5x str&agi multiplier (not to mention how heightened single stat costs a lot more), there is no reason for a cleric to go 2h, let alone 1h Hand. All clerics skills either are active or scale per hit not per stat- making agi and maximizing attackspeed the only decent choice. While this issue will be partly dealt with by David, with clerics getting a 2H buff sometime, this brings us to the other issue at hand: agi clerics.

Right now, there is only one 'viable' weapon for agi clerics(warriors actually get the rather widely usable primal icicle, and magma shortsword for frost resistant enemies, and sonnet for defense and wider coverage- both primal icicle and sonnet are speed12, almost equivalent to that of daggers)

It's the ancient fang. 4~10, speed 13, crit 7%, beastslayer 1.

Although at a minimal dps of 9.x on the wiki, this weapon excels by far, as despair's 11 speed and the less-desired damage type of toxic is far from enough to make up for the heavyhand, might, and duel factor.

I do not complain about "ancient fang being too weak", although it does pale compared to most other classes' "high tier weapons".
The issue, rather, is that the location, and gameplay regarding equipment.
The best course of action right now for clerics is to farm up until the point where you can kill a primeval bear, and go do so until an ancient fang drops (how I ended up playing), as the other weapons are...rather lackluster.

Once you do this, that's it.
There is no other weapon you can possibly want, that is of equivalent use.
Since the ancient fang has no elemental damage (thank god), its damage is consistent everywhere, not to mention how it outperforms all other weapons.

I was thinking it'd be great if clerics could get more light, fast speed weapons. I'm not saying it needs to be a lot stronger than ancient fang, but giving agi clerics a real "choice" to pick from, instead of having one bear-farmed weapon for the entire game(I got mine at level 8) would make it a lot more interesting. Maybe one based on elemental damage, or maybe a melee equivalent to Jester's bow.

Side note: ancient fang IS the strongest light weapon vs highly resistant enemies, even for warriors.

_________________
Terryberry the magikarp
Levels: undisclosed
Agi cleric - The three blessed with rapidly flailing hands.
2H warrior - Teach HM03?
Caster cleric - Used splash. Nothing happened.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Thank you for your observations.

Agility builds for Clerics and Warriors have some challenges in equipment. Part of the challenge is that the Rouge Class does really well with agility weapons so any awesome weapon added to level the playing field for agility Clerics and Warriors would over-power the Rouge. So maybe some type of class specific agility weapon for Clerics (e.g. A holy dagger?) and warriors (e.g. A short sword of speed).

My solution has been to play Clerics as 1-Handed weapons (get damage from both strength and agility) and play Warriors as 2-H weapon users.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:20 am 
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VDX_360 wrote:
so any awesome weapon added to level the playing field for agility Clerics and Warriors would over-power the Rouge. So maybe some type of class specific agility weapon for Clerics (e.g. A holy dagger?) and warriors (e.g. A short sword of speed).


Yeah, something ELSE would be the keyword, rather than something better. More of a variety request than a buff request here :)

But then, I've felt that despite the lack of equipment variety, agi clerics still are a lot stronger than 1hand clerics. <2 duel, 12 AM, 5 heavyhand, and the 5% stun / extra damage from crisader> pretty much says to the cleric class "thou shalt hit fast", once the player has enough skillpoints to max the warrior's guild related advanced skills.
Warriors have a choice, as hand weapons offer a defensive trait no other weapon does (infantry training), and agi actually outperforms 2h, at least in bossfights, and grant more equipment variety, not to mention how since whirlwind and charge scale on weapon damage, becomes a totally different playstyle that makes things more interesting.

Clerics...don't.
By 14- ish, ancient fang outperforms paladin's longsword so much that the go-to route naturally seems to be.. raise cleric as str until you get ancient fang + level 12ish, then reset stats, respect to agi:/

I don't like how a platemail wearing character holds a puny dagger and a shield, so i've tried multiple builds, each to no avail..

I feel that this "fixation on daggers" will always stay as is, unless there is some way to compensate bigger weapon damage, like warrior / rogue skills do.

Maybe if SF scaled on weapon damage, or crusader provided guaranteed crits every N seconds..

Any addition to the single weapon dagger arsenal,
and any way to incentivize clerics to build stronger damage per hit, rather than damage per second facilitated by high weapon speed would be amazing.

_________________
Terryberry the magikarp
Levels: undisclosed
Agi cleric - The three blessed with rapidly flailing hands.
2H warrior - Teach HM03?
Caster cleric - Used splash. Nothing happened.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Wow, i thought i was the only cleric playing agi and suffering this... im just lvl 10, so i have to farm like 3 lvls more to go and try to get that weapon.
I really dont know what other weapon could be nice, for the lower lvls, because when i try to go and kill mobs lv 10 or more, i just do 2-3 dmg (without buffs). My companion is really more usefull than me hahaha, and its really frustrating.

Hope David see this and try to make other choices for clerics.
Cya!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Faidith wrote:
im just lvl 10, so i have to farm like 3 lvls more to go and try to get that weapon.
I really dont know what other weapon could be nice, for the lower lvls

I'd say.. if you prefer a light weapon, bluesteel dagger, thunder, blood thunder, and despair (quite unlikely you have the ability to at the level, but possible, with potion investments..i think?)
As it has been a while since i was level 10 with an agi cleric i cannot clarify whether bluesteel dagger is better or worse than thunder, the others are ordered from lowest to highest damage overall. Hope this helps!

_________________
Terryberry the magikarp
Levels: undisclosed
Agi cleric - The three blessed with rapidly flailing hands.
2H warrior - Teach HM03?
Caster cleric - Used splash. Nothing happened.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:23 am 
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Playing on hard mode, I was able to get both despair as well as the tooth by 10th level, but it takes some pretty extreme care and many potions. I also suggest doing this as a 2-handed strength cleric and then switching to agility after you get one of these two top weapons. Making it though these dungeons is crazy hard if you're trying to do it as an agility build with a weak weapon.

Overall though, I definitely agree with your assessment of the class terry. It's certainly viable (strong even) but not flexible as there is basically one strong build and it relies on these two weapons. Right now I'm having fun blasting through things with a warrior, but I'm looking forward to revisiting the cleric once the 2h enhancements come into play.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:09 am 
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subgenius wrote:
I'm looking forward to revisiting the cleric once the 2h enhancements come into play.

Agreed. I'm hoping things change so Sacred Fire scales as a % of DPH, and crusader increases str scaling of 2H slightly, so that no build falls behimd others, whether it be 2H, 1H elemental, agi, or a caster-based char incorporating any of these.

After i was pretty much done with agi cleric and 2h warrior, i tried str + caster cleric...and quit after realizing Whirlwind did a lot more damage than Sacred Fire, even to undead. Apparently level 3 sf is insufficient to 1hit a lvl5 skeleton..

_________________
Terryberry the magikarp
Levels: undisclosed
Agi cleric - The three blessed with rapidly flailing hands.
2H warrior - Teach HM03?
Caster cleric - Used splash. Nothing happened.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Maybe making personality (and intelligence) increase magical damage by 0.5% for mages and 1% for clerics (and vice versa) could solve the problem.

Also, hey, i haven't seen David for a while now, is he okay? :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:19 am 
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brissenden wrote:
... i haven't seen David for a while now, is he okay? :D

Last heard, David was seen on tropical island spending the millions he made on the game... mostly on rum.

As for the intelligence damage increase, let's see how the mage class does when it comes out (sometime?).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:45 pm 
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A great solution for Agi-based Cleric would be more Elemental Hammers with 12 speed, for Strength-based Cleric it is better if there is a new advanced skill that will increase the critical rate or the damage output of Mace or Maul weapons just like the Two-Handed Mastery of Warrior. For magic-based skills maybe add a damage multiplier to it just like the damage calculation for Stab skill but with a flat damage not based on weapon damage.


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